OmniOutliner 3 Replacement Icons
Thursday, February 17, 2005
If you have used the new OmniOutliner 3 you've probably noticed its disgusting new icon. It makes me nauseous thinking how low Omni has fallen. Since I use this app a lot the icon has been digging into my nerves and I finally cracked the other day. I open Photoshop and finished this once and for all doing a replacement icon for the app and its documents. If you want to check them out you can download them here.
77 Comments:
Mike, you never cease to amaze me. No matter what people say about you, good or bad, you are always cracking me up with the things you do. The small little things that you do have so much thought put into them. These icons will not only make people love you and your company, but it is also a small stab at the Omni Group. There is no longer any quality control at Omni Group, and it is obvious that you being fired has to do with it. Thank you for continuing to entertain me with the little things you do.
Thanks so much! I actually emailed the support people at Omni about that terrible icon. Seriously, it counts as a bug in my book. Glad to find this awesome alternative from the original artist!
Omni's main draw (for me at least) was the awesome UI work they did. It appears that UI doesn't appear at the top of their priorities anymore... first the OmniWeb web-site, now the fugly icons on newer apps... *sigh* Thanks Mike
Hum. What do you see as the relevant differences? To my eye, your new one's are more generic looking.
Yours make it a hair more clear that the app is an outliner, but it's quire clear already.
In terms of pure visual attractiveness, I like Omni's version a bit more.
I like your icons a lot better than Omni's. They fit better into Mac OS X, IMHO.
That's a huge improvement, their icon is hideous. If you're not on good terms with them any more I'd be wary of reusing any work you've created while employed by them however (e.g. the OmniGraffle clipboard + pen) because they own the copyright to these unless you had some kind of special clause in your contract.
Ken, I'm really trying hard to understand why you think Omni's icons are most attractive than Mikes. After some thought I think I've come up with a pretty good conclusion. When you were a kid, did other people at school make fun of you for being ugly? When you got home did your mom hold you in her arms and tell you that you were beautiful? Well, she lied, stop believing it man.
OUTCH! I just loaded the page and was in pain when seeing the icon- then saw the one that mike made and it looks like a million bucks in comparison!
Good work.
Mark, I'm not trying to piss people off. I want to know what in particular Mike (or anyone else) doesn't like about the Omni icons. I like icon analysis. :-)
I can be specific about what I like and don't like.
The text on Mike's is intended to show the outlining, but is somewhat lost in all the other stuff on the app icon. The checkboxes fill this function in Omni's version, and they're both more immediately obvious and look better at smaller icon sizes. The item-ovals on Omni's also degrade to smaller sizes much better than the text on Mike's. The text just looks like a scribble when the icon is small. (Also, button? Key? What?)
Omni's icons have a color scheme and style that isn't common among Mac OS X apps. This means that the app and the doc can be immediately picked out. Despite not being exactly like every other thing out there, they retain plenty of Mac OS X character (as opposed to say, MS apps).
You could ask what's up with the light bulb. Okay, that's fair, but it makes pretty decent branding. The pen on Mike's just says "uses documents", which isn't really very novel.
I think Mike's icons - in general - are awesome. But I think Omni's are too. :-) And I just don't see the problem here. This set of Omni icons looks great and has great usability too!
Also, if you look at the doc icons, which is a more interesting piece of artwork? In this one set, Mike's version has a non-designed look akin to the "web-standards" look of web pages. Omni's actually have a design.
Hopefully they manage to pic up an icon designer who is half as good as you Mike. Your icon is so so much better!
Ken, you have got to be joking me. There's no possible way you can be serious.
BROWN dude. The icons are BROWN.
Ken, you could not be more wrong. The best designs are the ones that do not look designed and just feel right. Take the iPod for example. It does not have gigantic swoops and strips all over it, instead it is just perfectly simple. Sure other MP3 players looks more "designed" but thats a bad thing. Flash ages but simplicity is immortal.
Chris McElligott said...
"Hopefully they manage to pic up an icon designer who is half as good as you Mike. "They did hire a new designer, he just sucks.
I'm not saying simple is bad, I'm saying that simple doesn't replace a design. Apple designed the hell out of the iPod - that is *not* something that someone just said "let's make it simple" and that's all the work there was to do.
I totally agree that it's all about the feel, but that's something you gotta work for.
So, I guess you think Omni's are too busy. Okay fair enough. :-) (Though to my eye, your app icon is the busiest of the four.)
Best icons in my apps folder in no particular order: Mail, Firefox, Nicecast, OmniGraffle 2, PodWorks, PulpFiction, Watson, Address Book. Those are the ones that just "feel right" to me, and most of those have some kind of real design to 'em.
I find this discussion very interesting. I look at the two sets of icons and I can see that they are quite different from a design perspective. However, I don't quite understand the almost universal praise for the superiority of Mike's icons. No offense to Mike as a designer is intended--I enjoy your work very much, which is why I read your blog regularly.
I guess what I am looking for is a more objective argument for why Mike's icons are superior. Ken provided some good support for his argument in favor of the Omni icons (for example, the checkboxes and ovals degrade better than the text). However, the support for the superiority of Mike's icons have all been subjective things (they're not Brown, they are simpler, etc.).
Basically, I guess what I'm trying to get at is what makes a great icon and what makes Mike's better than Omni's? They are different in style indeed--Mike's blends in more with OS X and with other apps while the Omni icon jumps out at you in the dock, probably due to the orange/brown color. I notice, too, that Mike's is pretty much the exact same as OmniGraffle's, just with a different icon on the clipboard. Does the fact that it fits in with other Omni Apps make it a better icon from a design standpoint? Or perhaps the fact that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb but instead blends in more elegantly with OS X?
Nice blog man, I like mac icons and also I like hmm firefox. How do you make your blog so nice.. And how come your picture moves :P? What program you use? fireworks? or hmmm flash?
Great job, Mike. I like 'em.
You've certainly attracted some interesting people and interesting conversation on here! When it comes down to it, it seems to me that good design is separated along two aesthetic opposites:
- Fancy, intricate, complex
- Simple, sparse, zen
Neither is bad. Both can be executed well. People generally prefer one over the other, but it's almost impossible to compare the quality of the design of two things when those two things aren't in the same "design paradigm".
Unquestionably Apple uses the second paradigm in the list almost exclusively. And I would say Mike does too. That means Mike's icons are more "Mac-like" although that adjective is extremely hard to quantify.
But if you prefer "fancy" to "simple" in general, it'll be difficult to convince you that something simple is better.
Mike Matas Said "They did hire a new designer, he just sucks."Do you know who they hired?
Nice, Mike. Now, can you please redesign the Painter IX icon? Positively the ugliest icon ever. I'm shocked that I haven't read about how ugly the icon is in any of the reviews for it.
The Omni icon is good in trying to show off all the features it has in one quick snapshot.
Mike's icon is good to say that it is a outliner program in a quick snapshot.
Why Mike's icon is better is because having a simple icon is better than a really complicated icon to show all the features of a program.
Think of the iPhoto icon: a simple photo with a camera, gets the point across. It does not try to show a photo being edited and put in an album and organized.....
So, simple to get the overall idea is good, and then once the icon draws the user in, they find the real power of the program.
My goal is to always use as few things as possible in order to get the job done. This is not just in design. It is just about being efficient. You do not want to pay more than something is worth, you do not want to put 3 coats of paint when the wall is covered with 2. In design if something is not adding to the overall goal it should not be there. Everything should have a purpose. I am very religious about this.
Excellent. Any chance you could have a go at Omniweb as well?
Or are you a Safari man?
Jon... why would Mike Matas redesign the OmniWeb icon, when he designed it in the first place?
I know Mike did the interface icons, but I always thought that Rick Roe did the application icon?
I have a MUCH better OmniWeb icon I did when working there. I can not post it because they own it, but no one there liked it, so you will never see it.
Mike, are you talking about the globe with the surf board? That was a really great icon, and I liked it a lot more than their current icon.
Wow, well, this has been an informative discussion and I feel like I have learned a bit about icon design and philosophy. Danny did a great job of presenting the two basic approaches to icon design. And Mike's enthusiasm (or perhaps religious zeal?) for simplicity and function is quite instructive.
So, in the end, I guess you could say Omni's icon is unnecessarily flashy (gaudy?) and doesn't express the application but instead shows off its features, which is not the goal of a good icon. Mike's icon on the other hand expresses the application in a simple and elegant way. It looks like Omni is trying to incorporate marketing elements into their icon design.
Anyway, thanks. This has been instructive.
Mike, what do you mean with this words in the icon:
ideas
button
key
notes
brain
ideas and notes are some terms, that I can associate with brainstorming app. But button, key are global terms in the Computer world and have nothing to do with organizing ideas. And especially they have nothing to do with the overtitle ideas. I had never an idea button or key. An idea could be: go for a walk or something better. And under notes you write brain. What does that mean? Is the message, that you should use your brain and not only pressing buttons and keys? When that is the case, then I must say: Mike's icons tells the message better then the ones from Omni. But you have to think over it. It is not obviously!
I admit the text does not make to much sense. I Just put down some random words. I Use words like "key" and "button" a lot in my outlines because I use it to design UI. Sorry if it does not relate to you directly.
Damn fine work. Applied and enjoyed.
Sorry but I really don't see the big deal in the change it's not like there that different is it?
I still prefer the omnigroup icon. it has an identity and represent well the application. it's more scalable (very useful with the dock and finder) and easy to spot among many applications.
it's not ugly, it uses differents color than aqua, so maybe it's why it shocks you.
Wow, another OmniGraffle icon, which, um, is really boring. God forbid Omni ever use colors other than blue and white, and the lightbulb works much better than a fucking marker, which really nobody uses to take notes. And the Omni icon has a lot more, much more depth than Mike's, complete with checkboxes and a lightbulb, which is representative of the ideas the app is supposed to capture. Mike's has, um, a clipboard, and, uh, a marker. Even thouh the little note has a weird little drawing that's supposed to be a lightbulb, it looks like a fucking alien's buttcrack. Omni put a lot more thought into their icon, while Mike's is a painfully regurgitated incarnation of the Omnigraffle icon. No doubt, that icon is excellent, but for fucking OmniGraffle. This icon redesign seems to be less about OmniOutliner and more about Omni as a company. After all, Mike, you said that they had fallen low because of their icon redesign, which is actually pretty deep for them, considering it's the only one besides OmniWeb's generic one that doesn't have a visible OMNI logo on it. This is actually pretty stupid considering, Mike, that you actually took the OmniGraffle icon concept and design and then tried to fit it to the app that is OmniOutliner. For shame.
OmniGraffle and OmniOutliner work together so I thought the icons should go together. Also did you realize I drew the OmniGraffle icon?
Nah, i think Mike's are much better
Amazing the maturity level Mike displays. Regardless of one's feelings for a former employer and/or their current designer, acting as Mike does displays incredible ignorance. "Jackass" your post made me think to myself.
And, having dealt with Mike (and Wil) in the past, well, Delicious Monster may as well be named "Assholes, Inc."
Um, yes, Mike, I knew that you created the OmniGraffle icon, but it makes a buttload of sense to be making the fucking same icon if they were somehow integrated, like how iMovie and iDVD are integrated, and Apple shopwd us in their icon, first with them both having the director's clapboard, and then changing iDVD's icon to have the iMovie's silhouettes in it. Alas, it's not the case with OmniOutliner and OmniGraffle. Nowhere does either app mention each other, and they are for two, very different purposes, and I guess types of people: visual and list-oriented (Task-oriented people). Truly, it seems more and more obvious that Mike just took OmniGraffle's icon and vomited it up into his new OmniOutliner icon. Looking at the dock, they are very hard to tell apart, and even then it looks like a sloppy job. Brain? Button? What the fuck? That's really great that you designed the OmniGraffle icon, but your new OmniOutliner icon is more indicative of a grudge you and Wil are holding against Omni, and less about the person who did the icon. Please.
Please. Everyone knows the OmniOutliner 3 icon is a piece of crap, I knew that from when I first saw it. It looks like someone found a rusty street sign on the bottom of the ocean, and found a lightbulb down there to go with it. It is absolutely horrible, and I'm glad Mike made replacement icons.
I don't think either one is particularly good or bad. I don't see how radio buttons and checkboxes fit into an outline, and I can't see how a clipboard and marker work together. I don't really care, though, because I tend not to stare at the dock all day.
My first thought I had when I saw Omni Outliner 3's new icon and user interface was that one of their coders had been given the task of design instead of a graphic artist. Their icon is pretty clear with it's message but quality of the workmanship is VERY poor.
Some people don't give a rats about icons and UI but those who do appreciate quality and Mike stands out as a special talent when it comes to OSX icon and UI design.
hehe. wow! getting heated up in here.
i like mike's icons better than the omni ones, tho i do like the oranje/brown action. they certainly do stand out in the dock being a different colour than aqua-blue.
what i don't like about them is the "tattered" effect they've got going on here. what does that mean, exactly?
You don't want icons to "stand out". Why do you want Outliner to just out at you rather than Safari? Is OmniOutliner the most important thing in your dock? I would be easy to make an icon that just stood out, just draw a big red triangle.
you fucking losers, all he did was make some nice replacement icons for an app he uses a lot, and he shared them with you.
um, tom owens, you are completely wrong. he didn't just make icons, he made icons because he didn't like their design, which he made condudive to the fact that he doesn't like omni. so basically it's about omni, not the icons. what a loser
Boy, some of you guys are really immature! I saw this as an opportunity to have a discussion about icon design and the various philosophies and approaches. Lighten up everyone and hold off on labeling people and companies losers. Jesus.
First anon, its tom owen, lol. Second, who cares if he doesn't like omni, i'm not exactly in love with them either. Do you work for omni or something? Not that it matters. Anyway, this is Mike Matas' blog Mike is an icon designer, he makes icons, he made replacement icons for an app he uses a lot and was annoyed with the icon. For example i hate the iconcomposer icon, i use it a lot, so i made a new icon for it. I don't hate apple, and by re-designing the icon i'm not showing my rebellion against them.
er, tom owen, mike matas was not like: "Gee, I thought I could make a really cool icon for an application that I use." Actually, he insulted a company he used to work for, so my argument is that it's less about the icon and more about the grudge he has against the omni group. i personally absolutely hate the omni group, but it is kind of fucked up to say that they ahve fallen "low" because he was fired from there.
So if I was fired from Apple, I'm not allowed to make a replacement icon for any Apple app?
dustin, you are perfectly allowed to, but that's not what mike did. he said they had fallen low, insulting whoever did this, and essentially telling everyone that he is the best thing to ever happen to omni, even though he didn't do any apps.
Anon, the thing is, if this is a taste of what Omni has to come then he is the best thing to ever happen to them. Their new work is at best average and that's bad news for Omni and for us the users. I don't know the ins and outs of what went on with Mike and Omni (worryingly you do and posting as anonymous really has me questioning who you are and what your motives are for posting), truth is I don't really care, that's between the two parties, although this is Mikes blog so I wouldn't expect anything other than a biased view. What I do know is that if you sack your designer who just happens to be one of the most highly regarded icon and UI specialists currently working on the Mac, then you make sure you've got someone equally as talented to replace him. Omni didn't do that and as a result their product now stands out for criticism.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
wellsaid Sean
Um, sean, what are you talking about? I have nothing to do with omni and nothing of what you said makes sense. Their work is not based on icons, which Mike did, they make money off of the applications. People who make icons are people like the Iconfactory, not Omni. Omni's work, logically, didn't depend on Mike's icon work, which is all that he did. So for you to say that Mike's leaving somehow impacted their offerings, which are, at their core, applications, which Mike didn't specialize in at Omni, it completely fucked up.
Secondly,
I don't have any motives, and to purport that I do because I participate in discourse is also completely fucked up.
Thirdly,"your designer who just happens to be one of the most highly regarded icon and UI specialists currently working on the Mac"
Okay, fine, that's true. Great. But that means absolutely nothing when pertaining to Omni. It would mean something to Iconfactory. But to Omni, it doesn't. And the UI relates to the toolbar icons, etc, not shit like palettes and document windows.
Fourthly,
"make sure you've got someone equally as talented to replace him. Omni didn't do that and as a result their product now stands out for criticism."
Their product isn't the icon, their product is the application. True, some Mac users really don't know the difference, so I can't say who, but I would agree that it is the packaging, the first thing a user sees about an application. That's awesome, but the icon is not the app, and Mike didn't even criticize the app, he criticized its icon.
So basically, it is totally unfair to say that Omni sucks now because Mike left, when all Mike did was make icons. That doesn't impact Omni in a way that the dismissal of a taleneted and pivotal programmer would.
Denied!
Anon, if I'm correct your answer seems to imply that the overall look and feel of an application is of no consequence to the functioning of an application. Well if we want to take that line then let's go all the way and say that we also don't need a GUI, we can just go back to using Apple II and DOS with text based applications.
Personally I like to use a WIMP based OS in particularly OSX which is in my opinion a work of art in comparison to say Windows. As a result I grade an application on two things, firstly and most importantly is the applications functionality, secondly and almost as important is the applications UI, its look and feel and for that reason if a company wants its applications to stand out from the many mediocre offerings available then their graphics team is just as important to them as their coders.
I presume Mike was employed by Omni for his graphical skills and I also presume - perhaps wrongly - that OmniWeb 5, Outliner and OmniGraffle 3's icons and UI are in large part the work of Mike and if that is the case then he is a large reason behind me purchasing OmniGraffle 3 because the GUI makes that product stand out from the other applications in that category.
If Omni decided to hire Mike instead of paying IconFactory their - IMHO ludicrously high - prices per icon then that was a business decision and I don't know what they paid him but it was a pretty smart one, he certainly took their apps up a level as far as user experience was concerned and I'd bet a lot of money that their accounts look a lot healthier as a result of his work.
Sean, hhave you any idea what the fuck we are talking about? It's not the fucking GUI that's being discussed, it is the icon. Since none of what you said in your latest comment makes a smidgen of sense. Mike makes no complaints of the GUI of OmniOutliner, but, precisely, it's icon. No, not it's interface, it's quality, but its icon. If Mike were to have been the sole contributor to Omni's GUI, then I don't think Omni would have fired him.
Owned.
Sure Mikes is better, what sucks is he has to slag others, just sounds like a whiner.
Sure Mikes is better, what sucks is he has to slag others, just sounds like a whiner.
Anon, I moved away from discussing just the icon because you were taking the conversation down the road of Mike being an inconsequential part of Omni when he was there, you almost imply that he was merely the tea boy for their superstar coders.
As I have said before, this is Mike's blog, it's not a public forum. Are you saying that he shouldn't be allowed to write down his own thoughts on his own blog?
Sean, when did I say that? I'm just refuting.
Think again.
Sean, thanks for your great comments.
Anon, you're way out of hand and out of line here. I work with Mike every day and I can personally tell you that he in no way hates Omni with the fiery passion you make him out to have.
Quite the contrary, I'd say that he admires what Omni used to stand for and is frustrated to watch as they produce lower quality work than they used to (not just in terms of a single application icon - Omni's work these days is simply not of the caliber that it was a year ago). If you even spent a second reading what he said in the post - he uses OmniOutliner a lot and the icon sucks - you'd realize that this replacement icon has nothing to do with the fact that Mike no longer works for Omni and everything to do with the fact that OmniOutliner has a really ugly icon.
I really don't understand what you're trying to read into here and your comments about an application icons not mattering to a software company are misinformed and ludicrous.
Some of the responses on this comment thread astound me!
When I say "It makes me nauseous thinking how low Omni has fallen" I am not talking about their icon design. I am talking about their complete disrespect for the importance of all aspects of UI design (that is everything from icons to windows to button layout to drag and drop interaction). I worked at Omni for two years as a UI designer along with Wil and Rick and over that period there was an accelerating amount of disregard towards our work. Over the past year Omni has fired all 3 of it's UI designers, the only people at Omni with a real passion for that part of software. In the same way it is impossible to make great software with out great coders it is impossible to make great software without great designers. You need booth pieces to make it work. What I am saying her is ilconceived arrogant rebelling, it is what I know about the situation after working Omni for 2 years.
Any chance you could do a replacement for OO3Template.icns as well? Pretty please?
Thanks!
Woah, it's hot in here. Mike, thanks for the icon. Everyone else, it's his PERSONAL BLOG. Chill out.
Whoa, I didn't know the vitriol knob went that far around. Could we turn it down? While the "new" icon Mike designed may or may not be somewhat or substantially better, I'm not sure if I would make the leap that ALL UI work at Omni has gone out the window. I used OO2 for quite some time, and I find OO3 to be MUCH more usable. What the icon looks like is less important to me than how well I can navigate around the app once I'm in -- honestly, I use LaunchBar, so I don't see app icons very often. And I mostly browse in list view, so the icons are pretty small. Frankly, blue is so overused in OS X that I kinda like the orange, but I have no better reason than that. I really *do* like the UI in OO3, however. Perhaps, Mike, you had something to do with that. But if you didn't, then I would say that UI concerns are at least somewhat alive and well within Omni.
Mike, you obviously have some baggage left over. Your apps are more Aqua-like (which some people like, others don't) and you're definitely a great designer.
But jesus, maybe you should start work on being a better person. You seem pretty petty and immature based on the handful of quotes I've seen from you. As it stands, most software companies would kill to have you ... if it weren't for your apparent inability to work well with others.
You're lucky to have Delicious Monster to work at. If you were one more designer in a company you didn't co-own, your arrogance would trump your ability to design in Aqua. You're still young -- try being less of a smug prick and you'll go far.
Thanks!
I have to say that the icons Mike presented - SUCK. I have looked through the website and liked a lot of his photographs, website and I am familiar with Monster.
But all that flew out the window with these retarded icons. OO's 3 icons are not the greatest but a lot better than this cheese. I wish some of these Mike fanatics could pull the stick out of their asses and look at this objectively.
I want applications that have distinct icons on the dock, so it is easier to find. Mike's icon, besides looking cheesy, would be hard to recognize. Mike's icon looks like they belong in a child's application. OO's 3 icon look they belong to a serious and somewhat playful application.
I am here to see what Apple has hired to be one of they UI designers. I was very happy till I reached this page. He sounds like a little bitter kid when he mentions Omni. And this discussion clearly indicates his arrogance and stupidity. Maybe Apple should have waited to hire him because he is immature but has potential.
Hi Mike, thanks for the icons. I did a crap-ass job modifying the OmniOutliner icons because I couldn't stand them either - so thanks for providing something more pleasant.
Jon, nice people finish last. You obviously don't know your history very well and have fallen for the liberal womanized propaganda floating around today.
"Over the past year Omni has fired all 3 of it's UI designers, the only people at Omni with a real passion for that part of software. In the same way it is impossible to make great software with out great coders it is impossible to make great software without great designers. You need booth pieces to make it work. What I am saying her is ilconceived arrogant rebelling, it is what I know about the situation after working Omni for 2 years"
I think you probably meant isn't ill-conceived arrogant rebelling, but the typo is pretty funny.
I'm only seeing this now because of the link from daringfireball, but I wanted to say that you are wrong. I have a passion for UI design. There are plenty of others here who have a passion for UI design. But I'm a programmer and not an artist. The functionality and usability of the software I build is where I express that passion. You make great icons, sure, but you or others leaving Omni has not compromised our focus on design in any way.
And that is what I know about the situation after working at Omni for 10 years.
Greg, is that sarcasm? You must be joking, right?
-- they did hire a new designer, he just sucks
I have to say that this comment is really quite unprofessional.
I hate the dirty, grey fringe and dull grey lightbulb on the official Omni Outliner icon. Mike's replacement isn't a home run, but it's certainly an improvement.
Paul D
To the nim-rod that keeps on attacking. Go some were else!
This is a free country, and further more Mike is paying for this blog. He can say what he wants. People like you make me sick, are you going to make him "pay" because he expressed an option? How very Nazi of you. So what if he likes or dislikes something, as a US citizen he has a right to say what he wants.
Of course you also have a right to speak your mind, and you have. You have made your point over, and over, and over, and over again. It's become tiresome. Please, please move along.
The rest of us were talking about icons and why we liked his or Omni's.
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